Brooke Jackson-Glidden: Okay, welcome to the great pizza showdown. For the record, we are [currently] eating a Cafe Olli pizza. We have a left side of the bracket, that is our new school, West Coast side. And then we have our right side, which is our old school and East Coast side. Obviously, tons of overlap here, lots of Portland pizza lives in a million different worlds. But we’re gonna start with what feels the most ubiquitous as far as I’m concerned, which is the wood-fire pizza. We’re choosing between Gracie’s and Cafe Olli.

Alex Frane: I think this is gonna be one of our hardest ones, because they’re both pretty phenomenal. We also have to contend with the fact that we are looking at recency bias as we just consumed a Cafe Olli pizza.

Matthew Trueherz: That is a tough one, huh? They’re both wood-fire, Gracie’s are like a smaller… I don’t think they’re Neapolitan, really…

BJG: I would not call them Neapolitan. To me, Gracie’s pies feel kind of like a smaller Cafe Olli pie in terms of texture and crust. It’s very clear that Craig [Melillo] has a really good handle on that oven. So the crust is always really soft, beautiful. The sourdough doesn’t ever feel over-proofed; it has a really nice texture. And I always end up eating the edges. I will also say they both do a really nice marinara pie.

AF: Gracie’s was the first exposure I really had to tomato pie in that style. I remember Craig saying that that was his favorite, where you should start.

BJG: If this were solely based on tomato sauce, I do think that Cafe Olli has a stronger tomato sauce. I think I prefer the crust at Gracie’s.

MT: My one Cafe Olli gripe is that sometimes their seasonal combinations get a little weird in a way that doesn’t totally land. I think the pizza we just ate is one of the three best pizzas in Portland, and that was, like, an hour after it came out of the oven.

WINNER: Cafe Olli

BJG: I think the easiest way to say this is that Tastebud walked so Lovely’s could run. Tastebud opened in 1999, it was just this little cart. It was doing this little thing, and then kind of grew.

AF: God, they were really prescient. And when people talked about this concept of a “Portland pizza,” when that was emergent, it was Sarah Minnick. I mean, there were other names, obviously, but she was always at the forefront, right?

MT: Yeah. I guess there’s a question of, When does it stop being pizza? My go-to description of Lovely’s is a restaurant where all the dishes happen to pizza.

BJG: I think that’s a really good point. One of my favorite pizzas she does is that Cosmic Gold potato… maybe I just really like this potato salad that happens to be on a pizza. The one thing I will say is that Tastebud has some nice flavor combinations that are a bit expected now—maybe you didn’t them then, but you certainly do now—like peaches and prosciutto. But at Lovely’s, you will encounter wild combinations and ingredients you’ve never heard of.

MT: As much as Chef’s Table tried to make it into this, you know, quirky Portland thing… it’s novel. It is not a novelty. It works.

WINNER: Lovely’s Fifty Fifty

BJG: These are the ones that are very rooted in Italian culinary history. We have Ken’s and Nostrana.

AF: Those used to be the king and queen of Portland, basically. 

BJG: And absolutely the S-tier for Neapolitan traditions. 

MT: S-tier

BJG: You know, the tier list?

AF: S is above A. It goes S, A, B, C, D.

MT: …what is this?

BJG: The point is, even though these might not be like certified Neapolitan pizzerias, they feel the most true to the ethos of pizza you would eat in that tradition.

MT: I feel like the cool answer is Nostrana, but the truth is Ken’s.

AF: I just want to say Ken’s is where I learned to love arugula on pizza.

WINNER: Ken’s Artisan Pizza

AF:  I had them both this weekend, and they were both very good, but something about Reeva’s toppings really kicked my ass. They were just flipping delicious, and they had a really nice char blistered crust.

BJG: Pan Con Queso, what they do there is Latin American, or specifically Mexican pizza. They’re doing chorizo con papas on pizza, the Verde is this kale, green onion, zucchini deal with salsa verde. I think something that’s always been true of Reeva is the same as Lovely’s Fifty Fifty. It’s really these great dishes that happen to be on a great crust. It’s these layerings of Peruvian mother sauces, or these intricate salsas, and having them layered with all these other components to create a flavor that’s really delicious.

AF: I would pick Reeva. Once again, this is not an obvious choice, not a TKO.

WINNER: Reeva

BJG: If I’m eating a pizza, I’m going to Scottie’s.

AF: Scottie’s is also a good deal.

MT: It’s expensive. Most of the pizzas are over $30.

AF: Everything’s expensive. But they’re big.

MT: So are No Saint’s, though. But Scottie’s has more of a lifespan. They do this two-part baking thing. It’s really designed to travel well. I think Scottie’s wins. It is like… you know how Snickers bars don’t taste like they did when you were 12? Yeah, neither does Chuck E Cheese pizza, right? What you want, as an adult, is a pizza that feels like eating a Chuck E Cheese did as a kid. And that’s Scottie’s.

WINNER: Scottie’s

BJG: When Pizza Jerk opened, it was hardcore parlor nostalgia.

MT: It’s Tommy Habetz, who goes way, way back. Bunk Bar, but before that...

BJG: He was at Gotham. And then before that, he was in some real deal New York restaurants. So, again, this is somebody who has a storied, storied, storied reputation here.

AF: Pizza Jerk was a real industry darling when it opened.

MT: Tommy’s everybody’s friend. Everybody loves Bunk Bar. You get your iceberg and your meatball sub. And then it was like, “Oh, Tommy’s back to making, still fun, casual food, but, like, as a real chef’s chef.”

BJG: Escape from New York, I think, does remind me most of the kind of places I would go at 1am when I lived on the East Coast. It feels very rooted in that gnarly slice shop vibe.

AF: The owner is from New York City. It’s been around 40 years now.

BJG: I used to go when I was a teenager. 

AF: I went as a little kid with my mom. That was like our place to go. So, I have a bias.

MT: But I mean, no pizza comes without a bias. Think of a more nostalgic food for millennials than pizza. For me, why I think Escape wins this category is because it has no illusions of being anything other than a gritty pizza place.

WINNER: Escape from New York

BJG: I think Pop has more pedigree. It has a very clear “baked by a baker” sort of refinement, in terms of how it’s approaching it.

AF: But Ranch wins, for me.

MT: Ranch wins. The bacon and pineapple one kills.

BJG: It’s messy, it’s saucy. It feels like its own thing. It has great structure, lots of airiness in the crust. You have the cheese baked into the crust in a way that’s really nice.

MT: It’s balanced though, in a way.

AF: To a point. It’s also still pretty decadent, which I like, especially when you slop on a bunch of ranch. 

WINNER: Ranch

BJG: Apizza Scholls is one of the best pizzerias. But also, Dimo’s is great. Dimo’s, I think, is trying harder to be New Haven style apizza. It is trying its dangdest to recreate the coal fired chew and well-done bottom. 

AF: He’s doing electric and wood or something like that to try to mimic coal. [Editor’s note: Dimo’s uses an electric deck and wood-fire oven to mimic New Haven coal ovens.]

BJG: You can’t do coal here.

MT: I think there’s a cool thing going on at Dimo’s. It’s just… 

AF: Apizza Scholls was considered for decades to be the best pizza in Portland.

MT: And they’re not just a legend, it is still good.

BJG: And again, really good high-low. You can get capicola topped, pretty sorts of pizzas. And you can get pineapple and pepperoni kind of vibes.

WINNER: Apizza Scholls

BJG: Okay, going back. Cafe Olli versus Lovely’s.

MT: Lovely’s.

AF: Yeah.

BJG: We choose Lovely’s… okay, why?

MT: I feel like it’s very much fair and tenable to say that Sarah Minnick is every pizza cook’s teacher in town, in a way. That Portland version of the farm-to-table, the idea that you could do that on a pizza is very much a Lovely’s idea. So both A-plusses but this is…

AF: This is S-tier.

MT: It’s S-tier.

BJG: S-tier, right.

WINNER: Lovely’s Fifty Fifty

AF: That’s… Ken’s.

BJG: I think it has to be Ken’s. Real respect to what the people at Reeva are doing. Really cool stuff, really great flavors. But in terms of the consistency and execution of the crust, it is extraordinarily hard to beat Ken’s.

AF:  I mean, Ken’s just been doing this for so long. They’ve got it dialed in. They know what they’re making.

MT: And we’re talking about all these places that have been around forever, have their systems dialed in. We’re also talking about restaurants that are open seven days a week; that rhythm, that consistency, those resources, really play out in the bread of pizza.

AF:  You just can have so much more control over the temperature, if that’s not in a food cart.

BJG: So, respect to an underdog, but it’s Ken’s.

WINNER: Ken’s

AF: Scottie’s is going to beat out I all these kind of New York approximates, I think.

MT: It’s the best version of that.

Winner: Scottie’s

MT: Well, Apizza Scholls.

AF: I would almost…

BJG: No, I’m ready for it. Let’s go!

AF: When I was eating red meat, the #3 at Ranch, which is the one that has sausage and peppers and things like that, was, in my mind, one of the single best pizzas in town. And I do think that with Apizza Scholls, you’re sort of comparing it against every other style that approximates that, right? Whereas Ranch just completely knocks it out of the park with what it’s doing, and it offers something really different. I’m not saying it should win. I’m just thinking that there’s something really fun about Ranch.

MT: Totally. Which is why it got to be up to whatever number it’s at.

BJG: I think it comes down to the quality of the toppings. I think Apizza Scholls has better toppings. I think that the crust at Ranch is great, but it’s not trying to be highbrow.

WINNER: Apizza Scholls

BJG: Okay, Lovely’s or Ken’s?

AF: Lovely’s.

MT: Lovely’s.

AF: I love Ken’s. Like I said, it used to be my favorite. Honestly, it was Lovely’s that toppled Ken’s in the pizza ranking in my head.

MT: Of the two most hyped-up institutions—you know, that people know the names of outside of Portland—I think it’s Lovely’s who can represent that.

BJG: I think Ken’s is really strong. I think for people who like a pretty traditional pizza, they will probably be happier at Ken’s. I think what’s being done at Lovely’s, to me, is more interesting down to the crust. 

MT: We’ve had a lot of places where it’s like, Love what they’re doing, love they’re pushing in this direction, but it’s not better than the classics. And I think Lovely’s is the one that actually stands out, that is doing something else.

WINNER: Lovely’s

BJG: This is one where I think we’re actually gonna argue the most. Scottie’s or Apizza Scholls. I know what my answer is.

MT: I have a deep love for Scottie’s.

BJG: I think Scottie’s.

AF: I think it might be Scottie’s.

BJG: My feeling about Scotties is that when you think in your head, “pizza”—in the United States, at least—you think that kind of pizza. And I have not seen a better executed version.

MT: I think this isn’t what we’re asking, but if I’m going to a place, the answer is Scholls. If I’m getting takeout, it’s Scottie’s, because that’s what they’re designed to do. Whereas if you get a Scholls to go, it’s kind of a bummer. I think Scottie’s is remarkably fun, too.

WINNER: Scottie’s

BJG: Okay, over the finish line. Lovely’s or Scottie’s? I think it’s Lovely’s.

AF: I think it’s Lovely’s.

MT: It has to be Lovely’s.

AF: Lovely’s is kind of the best pizza in Portland.

MT: Give me a half-and-half.

BJG: Yeah! I love them both so dearly. I think if someone asked me, “Which one do I want?” I would ask you, “What are you looking for? Are you looking for red sauce, pepperoni?” Because if so, you will not find a better one in this town than Scottie’s.

AF: You know what? I’m gonna change my mind. I’m gonna say Scottie’s, because of that very reason, because the things we talked about a lot. That Lovely’s isn’t always a pizza. It is sometimes a recipe that’s on a really excellent dough. Scottie’s is sort of like the epitome of what you think of when you think of pizza. Like you mentioned, that’s where you go when you want to eat Chuck E Cheese. If we’re really objectively ranking pizza, I almost feel like Scottie’s has the edge.

MT: You know what you’re doing though? You’re catering to the picky eaters. 

AF: Isn’t that the point of pizza, though? That it’s supposed to be, ultimately, crowd pleasing. Isn’t that the fundamental aspect of pizza, that it is the most crowd-pleasing food there is, and isn’t Lovely’s maybe just a little bit too nichey Portland for that to be the number one?

MT: No, I think Portland is nichey Portland.

AF: Also a fair argument. We’re talking Portland pizza.

BJG: What you said is true in the United States. I don’t think it’s true in other parts of the world, especially Italy. I think that Portland is sometimes not the United States.

MT: That’s the real truth.

AF: That’s absolutely true.

MT: To speak to your point, if Lovely’s didn’t have a cheese pizza and it was only, like, “Pecan-broccoli pesto is the most basic we get,” then it would be, like, you have to only take certain people here. But you can get a cheese pizza.

BJG: Oh yeah, they have a mozzarella basil. It’s so funny, because I would never think to do that. I would never go to Lovely’s and go, “I’m gonna get a cheese pizza!” I understand both, and I could go either way for that reason. I do think that if you’re thinking pizza and you’re thinking a slice of pepperoni, I think Scottie’s wins. I think when we’re trying to think about the best pizza, I do think my brain also goes to the most Portland pizza. I think it’s Lovely’s, but I do think that it depends on what you’re looking for.

WINNER: Lovely’s